The most special building in Haringey - Deborah Hedgecock, Bruce Castle

Such a beloved institution - one that many of our previous guests have mentioned as part of their own story. It only really occurred to me as I was listening to Deborah again about the tradition of collecting oral histories that this podcast is kind of that, too - collecting community voices to paint a picture of Tottenham / Haringey during this particular period in time. Obviously a small blip once you listen to the wide scope Bruce Castle covers. Also on a side note - as a teacher I know hardworking people when I see them and Deborah is pretty much wonder woman, she is putting so much into this most special building in Haringey, a true hero.

their website: https://www.brucecastle.org/
the Friends of Bruce Castle: https://www.friendsofbrucecastle.org.uk/
their Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brucecastlemuseum/
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pod instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anybodyeverybodytottenham/
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pod twitter: https://twitter.com/AnybodyBody

Transcript

Jamila  0:10  

Hi I'm Jamila and anybody everybody Tottenham is a bimonthly podcast, introducing the good people of Tottenham to you. And hello everyone. Happy Halloween we are just about making it to our BI monthly podcast episode. So the second episode for October and another featuring one of the legends one of the top tips in Tottenham. So we've got Deborah from Bruce castle. And I have to tell you, this episode is packed with so much information and I had to edit so much like Debra just knows it's unbelievably she knows people, the history, like 1000 year we spending of Harringay history today. So she probably mentioned you, but I had to edit it out. Really enjoy this one. Okay. Today on the pod, we've got another favorite from the top tips, Bruce Castle Museum, and I've got Deborah hatchcock ith me. Thank you for joining me.

Deborah  1:12  

Thank you very much for inviting me.

Jamila  1:14  

So Deborah, what is your role in regards to Bruce castle?

Deborah  1:19  

My job title is curator. What does that actually mean? So, yeah, we're a very small team. So it means an awful lot of things. So you're very hands on. But the role of curator and there is also a managerial role is that we're looking after and caring for the collections that have been given or preserved in trust for the people of Haringey. And to beat I have this wonderful opportunity of helping to look after a wonderful grade one listed building. So it's about sharing that wonderful history, and presenting how we access our collections through exhibitions and events, and our educational learning program, with schools in particular, but learning through all the ages,

Jamila  2:08  

and how did you become a curator, what was your career path?

Deborah  2:12  

Well, I suppose you've got to have that, that buzz that hook, when you start and I suppose I was really lucky growing up, I grew up in Brighton. And so I had this wonderful magical childhood of going to see the Pavilion and the museums, etc, behind the scenes. So that's was quite magical. And then obviously, through school, etc, just kind of those special visits and just being part of a family that was really immersed in history, etc. And I suppose through my interest, although I didn't actually study history, I actually studied ancient history through Greek and Roman kind of cultures. And, and then going on to university, I had explored the cultures of Greece and Rome, which opened up the histories of more modern Italy, and more modern Rome, of course, as well, and really opened my eyes to how we view the world. And I was very lucky to have - my Director of Studies was Mary beard, who you may have seen on the television. And so she was very supportive of my own thoughts about following a career in museums. And it's, it's not an easy journey. It's very hard. Anyone working in arts and culture, you've got to have that passion, and you've got to really stick with it. You've got to be prepared for a very small window of opportunities. But you've got to make your own opportunities. So I think doing a lot of volunteering, that was very key to get me where I am.

Jamila  3:49  

What kind of volunteering did you do? 

Deborah  3:51  

Well, I started off with my local museum in Brighton. So I was doing volunteering there and helping looking after the collections there. Behind the scenes, that was wonderful. And I also had the opportunity at university to have several months of doing volunteering work there as well. And so I also managed to get a job when I left University, working in the City of London at Guildhall library, which is how I got into the wonderful world of London's own special history. That was quite a nursery for me to, to kind of get a feel of it not having been brought up in London. I was really working with fantastic colleagues about London's history and working with collections which were just fantastic and excellent and doing research and answering inquiries really hands on everyday people's kind of thoughts and queries, as well as kind of high academic stuff as well. So working in the city, I had that opportunity with the Guildhall. They were doing archaeology at the time. It was the site at the Guildhall of the Roman amphitheater. So we always think of Rome, the Colosseum, actually, the City of London had its own amphitheater where gladiators would have been fighting etc. So that captured my imagination. And so that archeological dig was going on whilst I was working on different collections for a different period of time. So I was walking past that every day and seeing that in action, that was fantastic. And now you can go and see that as part of the Guildhall Art Gallery experience in the basement, I did more studies, I did a master's and then I actually got a paid job with the Museum of London archaeology service as it was known at the time. So really going back to grassroots with working with finds that were coming out of the ground, working with archeologists, and making those collections accessible to researchers, and then eventually museums, etc. So the Museum of London in particular. So that's kind of the initial journey. And then after that, once you get your professional qualification, I then managed to come back to London, and take small short term jobs, and eventually building up to working in a community museum at Stevenage, so outside of London, and then back into London and Bruce castle. So getting to what I felt was quite call to me about where I came from, from a community museum in Brighton. And so I felt I needed to be less behind the scenes and more in front of the scenes working with the public. 

Jamila  6:46  

Okay, can I ask a little bit about this whole idea of community museums? What is the picture of that? Overall, in the UK?

Deborah  6:56  

Local authorities deliver an awful lot of culture, maybe people don't realize that it's not nationals, necessarily. It's not necessarily private. So I say councils throughout the land, whether it's a big county or small London boroughs in London, they do deliver an awful lot of cultural opportunities. And they either have museums and or archives to share those local community stories, or at least that's what I think they should be doing. But they do collect - they do have collections about local people. And certainly when I joined the museum world, it was in the 90s. And I suppose it's trying to get more of a people's history. So I suppose during the 70s and 80s, there was a drive towards collecting oral histories and really capturing those voices. So coming to a place like Haringey, we were really, you know, having very wonderful collections based on everyday people's stories with a mix with people who are pioneers, as well. So I liked that scope here and Haringey, and there's so many stories to collect, and it will be never ending, you know, how local people have shaped their neighborhoods, their borough, their area through time, and but on the back of other centuries, where people have been doing the same.

Jamila  8:24  

Okay, and did you have a connection to Haringey before you applied for that job? Or did you just start to discover Haringey once you started the job?

Deborah  8:34  

Well, when I left university, I lived in London, and I lived in Finsbury Park, so I was on the on the edge of Hackney Islington and Haringey. So it wasn't alien to me at all. It was there. And it seemed quite natural to go and explore. That's what I'm like, I always look up and always explore and find out where I live, or where I'm away on holiday or whatever. So it's always about that curiosity. So it wasn't a different place. For me, it interested me. And I remember coming here on an open house visit.

Jamila  9:08  

I was wondering if you had been to the museum before.

Deborah  9:11  

My first journey here was actually an open house to visit because I was really interested in how this on the open house guide which was very small in those days, and it had Bruce Castle I thought I can get on the fantastic W3 bus route going through Haringey see all the glorious things from Alexandra Palace through over to Tottenham, and it was my first visit and I arrived and I'd had a bad foot so I actually missed and I missed the tours - just. I left too late. But I did explore and it really was quite exciting to see this wonderful place which I wanted to find out more about and then I explored the opportunities of doing this project with others and then volunteering here and that's how I got to know More about the area. And then I ended up thinking about writing a book with another Tottenham resident Christine props who had already written, accessible and lovely photographic books about the area. So that was my first foray into Tottenham. But as it happens, my husband's family three generations before were all Tottenham and Tottenham Hotspur supporters. It hasn't passed on, I'm afraid, but it's certainly the three generations. You know, father, grandfather, great grandfather, all Tottenham Hotspur supporters.

Jamila  10:41  

And so you've been in your role now for just over 20 years? (Yes.) And how has the museum changed? 

Deborah  10:51  

When I first came, it was quite hard, and things were a little rocky, to be fair, because others had been unwell. And so there was kind of an, you know, an unfortunate, just nothing much going on. So coming along here and applying for grants and working with those people who are already here, who really had a vision of trying to get more community involvement in the museum. So we helped to set up talks with the Friends of Bruce castle. So those were in the evening, this moved on to lunch times, we created with a lot of very active local residents, not just in Tottenham, but around Haringey, who were very keen on having this as a fantastic, excellent resource that more people can engage with. So the friends of Bruce castle helped with supporting the family activities program, so to keep activities for free for families to join in. So that was, every weekend, once upon a time. And, and then, you know, we had a very strong schools program. So it was about building that up. So it's kind of all these little, well, things that you'd expect at a museum and making sure those structures were in place. And that there was a proper program here that was always regular, and consistent, and had a wide range of interesting ways to engage. You know, some things might engage lots of people, others might be a bit more specialist. But it's kind of trying to showcase the wonderful stories. And certainly, oral histories were very much part of that in telling those stories. And so applying to grants and working with communities to help them tell their own stories, that's been very much part of the journey. So the difference now has been the pandemic, and reactivation after that. So it's a little bit like starting again. But rather than starting from nothing, you had quite a high level of activity. So reintroducing things afterwards. And having the momentum has been quite a challenge. And also the nature of the area, people leaving. So people not here anymore, for various reasons, has been quite interesting. So some things can't happen anymore. And there's new people coming along and wanted to find out. So it's, it's a challenge, but a really healthy challenge. So it's about how we reengage, because there's been an awful lot of very new people coming to the areas and making it their home. And, during lockdown, we were very much writing something every single day about the whole of Haringey, six days a week, we didn't think it would be for so long. But every day, people were relying on us to send through an email because it's all we had - sent you an email, an interesting little article about some aspect of the area's history. And it was encouraging people to explore. If you're able to go out and wander around, I would sit there and imagine what we can use from our collections. And also think about the area. So it's about, you know, areas that you wanted to encourage people to go to explore or find out about, and things, you know, using an object to tell the story behind that. So one wonderful little story that was very delighted to share even though we'd had an exhibition about women and the vote in 2018, the story of the spong sisters who were suffragettes and they lived in Muswell Hill, and some of them worked in Tottenham. There's four young middle aged women who were very active in the suffragette movement. They were in a privileged position because their father was and their brother were manufacturers of sprong projects, which were the beans slicers, the meat mincers, the nut mincers. So there's little gadgets that revolutionized the Victorian kitchens and the Edwardian kitchens and made life a lot easier. These were the gadgets that were made in Tottenham, the word spong, you can't go wrong with a spong. Were very much part of the middle classes, and eventually all classes kitchens, from the Victorian period and Edwardian period and way through the 20th century, and some people still have those old gadgets. But the story behind the hidden story wasn't just about the manufacturer, but about the family. And their views and they're vegetarian. They were pacifist, they're very active for women's vote. And it was women like them, and a family like them that helped contribute to changing the world, really, or this country.

Jamila  16:04  

So that was one of your highlights of the pandemic, what have been some of your highlights over the last 20 years?

Deborah  16:12  

Well, we recently had our Haringey History fair. So every year, we thought, how can we share more and more about the history of Haringey and get more people involved. And I was really pleased about how we have been supporting different heritage and arts organizations around the borough. So having that very recently, that's been a real achievement over the years, and how it's grown and grown over time. So it's really fantastic to have the opportunity of local people to have stalls to promote, whether it's the Friends of Tottenham cemetery, or the radical history network, or the Friends of Alexandra Palace. And also, we have the new museum in Finsbury Park emerging, which is the Museum of homelessness. So sharing all those different stories or research, so there was something for everyone. That's been a fantastic thing that I think that we've been doing. We've recently won the Stanford Heritage Award, which is an award recognizing our achievements in education. And so we're really pleased that the education and learning team and along with the support from the rest of the team here, have really managed to share the wonderful opportunities that that we work with schools and all sorts of learning events. So that's great, that's special about how we engage with this very special building other achievements, exhibitions, and the related events to those exhibitions. There's been so many from the Harris levers furniture factory that was fantastic in Tottenham and the work of Paul Collier, and myself and others to help profile that company, and the books that have come about as a result of it. (I've got it) great and fantastic. And but it's ended up with us, building up relationships with the actual family to deposit a very important collection here at Bruce Castle, which is nationally important if not Internationally, and other different collections have come about because of that. Black Georgian Londoners. That was another fantastic project, working with the vicar at St. Bartholomew's in Stamford Hill and South Tottenham, and working with a collection of portraits and, and uncovering more about the history of Bruce castle. And the residents here, the Lord and Lady of the manor. And they're very special story you have to come to Bruce castle to find out what that is. But a fantastic exhibition, which is available for schools still to borrow. 1619 map we have this fantastic map, and people who love maps - It's such a pretty map. With so much information, we do have a massive reproduction of it on the wall at Bruce castle, but it really draws people in and it's really something that really engages us with how the area Tottenham has evolved. You can see all the green spaces, but still roads that are recognizable today. funny names for some areas, but still some of them are the same names. So it's very interesting map, along with many other maps that we have here. But the 1619 map was a very special one led by our education team, because it had to engage with schools. And the most recent one, I suppose exhibition was Luke Howard, we've done two exhibitions about Luke Howard, one where we received funding from the Royal Society about how we can tell the story of Luke Howard which was otherwise ignored. I was able to borrow material from the family and we had built up we had some things already in our collections. We built up those things as well, but beyond the man of science, but as Also the philanthropic deeds as well. And so there's the Tottenham counts website led by Margaret Burr. Fantastic. So all of these things all have shoots and branches from something that you work and you make public but exhibitions last for only a short while, or relatively short while. So you need to kind of showcase that work and take on with others to, to do a lot more with it. And Margaret is one who really has. So we've marked the 250th anniversary of Luke Howard. And last year and we had a, we were one of many events around Tottenham to celebrate.

Jamila  20:39  

Yeah, Lordship rec, they mentioned it as well.

Deborah  20:42  

So that was very special - permanent weather station and resource there and making it the first global, of globally important cloud watching Park and that we had an exhibition where nine artists, there were nine types of clouds identified by Luke Howard. So we invited nine artists to do their own interpretation of clouds that was a glorious, coming together of like minded people, and trying to, you know, just showing it and that was a wonderful event, the opening night was a wonderful event. So there's so many I could go on. 

Jamila  21:18  

But how do you choose what will be an exhibition? 

Deborah  21:24  

There's different reasons why one does exhibitions, and sometimes it's opportunities of working with partners. So there's an idea, there's an opportunity to get funding, but how it's resourced and what story you need to tell so, the Luke Howard one is an anniversary, and how you might look at that, and respect that and try and get people involved in it in different ways. And different places. We like to use our collections. Collections can be inspiring, or it's about the collections. So we will be having an exhibition coming up, which has waited a long time because of the pandemic it was something that was meant to be happening in 2020. But it's finding the space, the right time, right space to have it. So that will be about the to Williams, the violin maker and a photographer from late Victorian, Edwardian, Tottenham. So these are relating to collections we have, and then borrowing collections. And there was a plaque that was put up a couple of years ago in Church Road in Tottenham. So there's lots of different reasons. And right now we have the grip, the exhibition, which is about celebrating Windrush 75. So these are opportunities where perhaps there was a funded project, and beautiful collections were being made. And this is kind of a way to celebrate that. And it's not just for a day, Windrush, it's about making sure there's a legacy. So what I'm saying is that there's lots of different ways of how exhibitions transpire. What we want it to do is to showcase and make Harringay very special, and we have a duty to showcase our collections. And one way of having lots of different temporary exhibitions is one way of letting people know that the collections are here, letting them engage opportunities for schools.

Jamila  23:17  

Okay, Deborah, I was gonna pick up on two things that you mentioned, and one that I've seen in my research as well that it says, Bruce Castle is the only grade one listed building in Tottenham or Haringey. No, is that not true?

Deborah  23:34  

Yeah, I think th at slightly out of date now.

Jamila  23:37  

What does that mean anyway? 

Deborah  23:39  

Well, grade one listed building means that it's in the top. I think it's 2% of buildings in this country. So it means it's nationally important and recognized by what is now Historic England. So I believe it was about 1949 that it was given a special status. So it's a very rare survival of a certain type of building in this country. And in Haringey, there are other buildings. There's the - in highgate, there is a Cromwell house which is grade one, which you can't go into and there's also some Lubetkin architecture at High Point so there is high point one and high point two on one of the most fantastic roads architecture wise in Haringey, if not London, in North Road in Highgate. And those were built by gaestetten. Now, which is another fantastic production we have - so gaestettner was a factory that was based in Tottenham, and those flats were built for the workers originally. And Lubetkin was the - or his not Lubetkin. Him and his team were the ones that were the architects of those two blocks of flats, but the gaestettner was very important, important employer. For those that don't know, guess that the machines were the precursor to the modern day photocopier. So it was a reproduction equipment. And it revolutionized the world in how we reproduce and make copies of pieces of paper. So it's a very democratic mode of copying. So it made it much easier for schools, grassroots organizations, scouts, churches, all sorts of places to get their message out there. And, you know, it was obviously a very important 

Jamila  25:42  

almost a bit like internet right? in democratizing ...

Deborah  25:46  

Yes and I'm sure the likes of, I think your previous interviewee, Dave Morris, not so much relying on the Gaestettner machine, but people who are grassroots activism, transforming those events and getting marches together and spreading the word really important. So things like the art collection that we showcased here and another wonderful collection and exhibition we had here of the LGBTQ plus Black and Asian minority ethics in the borough. The Haringey Vanguard project is what I'm talking about. And those special collections and a lot of those were the things that people throw away perhaps or may have done the ephemera but the ephemera which was very important call to arms for action, and activism. So you know, things may be things like that are in an attic. But lots of grassroots organizations, the Haringey anti apartheid movement, the LGBTQ plus organizations, lots of different places, all utilizing this very important machine. But that's the story behind a grade one listed building.

Jamila  27:00  

The reason I knew about lebus and gaestetten was when I talked to the rabbi about the Jewish history in the area, so that all links nicely together.

Deborah  27:12  

Just to say, going back to your original question, grade one listed is the only publicly accessible grade one so that is true and grade two star is the next notch down is grade two. So there's an awful lot of grade two. And then the next rarity is grade two star. And we have a few of those around here as well. 

Jamila  27:34  

But you're, you're special. You're the most special special,

Deborah  27:37  

We're special but this is whole quarter here at Bruce Castle is a very special heritage quarter. So you have an original manor house, which has been on this site for about 1000 years. The building is 500 odd years old. So but it's not the oldest building. So I say there's been a building on this site. But the oldest building in Tottenham and in fact, the borough is All Hallows Church, which is just behind us here. And that's a medieval church is grade two star. And next door to it is the very beautiful 17th century farmhouse called the Priory which from 1906 brcame the vicarage for the church. It wasn't always the vicarage, but it's very beautiful. And we were very blessed in being able to access the vicarage garden very recently. So that was beautiful very magical, quite a secret garden. But that whole enclave here is a fantastic historical oasis here of the beautiful park, the very ancient tree, which is 500 must be 500 years now. And you've got the lovely little cottages in prospect place. Overlooking the cemetery. The cemetery is a fantastic haven for wildlife and just so peaceful and is full of history as well, as you can imagine. So 50 acres of that 20 acres of Bruce Castle Park, the Church Lane is one of the most ancient names in the whole area leading around to Church Road, and just just exquisite and Oh, we're so lucky that we have this really, it really is special.

Jamila  29:18  

And the other thing I was gonna ask about was about the Haringey archives, because you are also home to that. What is this? And I know it's accessible, but how can I imagine accessing? Why would people want to access the archive?

Deborah  29:34  

So Museum and archive collections here are used to inform all our events, all our education, all our exhibitions, and lots of archives are paper based so that they can range from maps and newspapers to electoral rolls, Council minutes so the range can be very official, to kind of everyday the sorts of newspapers that people be reading, you know, 20 years ago, 100 years ago, 150 years ago. So and there's photographs, and but basically anybody can come here, if they've got a research topic, whether it's a thing about their house, their school, think about a person, just inquisitive about the area, or a more serious nature, they can find out information. So there's official information that they can help an individual. And, you know, to ranging through educational access to light, you know, kind of recreational activities of finding out about certain things. But we have lots of different professionals using the collections from archaeologists, to architectural historians, to really help us understand the whole area. But you can also come and, and all those oral histories and stories I've been talking about, you can come here and find those that they're not on display, because you can only display a certain amount. This is where you can access it, and you access it through the search room. And the search room is a space where we get out the collections for you to explore. And we sometimes have groups come in to kind of showcase and look at what the collections might hold for their own journey and research. It's sometimes you know, we have people on ancestral tourism. So they might want to come along and look at - they might not live here anymore. But they can all come along, whether in groups or individuals in the search booking in, and you've got people on hand to help you access that material. And we don't have absolutely everything, but we have a good amount. So we always feel like we've all got some- a little bit of something about most people in this room.

Jamila  31:46  

Is there anything else you want to plug any upcoming events?

Deborah  31:51  

We've got some very lovely upcoming events. So in the build up to Christmas, we have our Tottenham flea and designers fair, which is coming up on November the 18th. So do come along and support that we have the friends of Bruce castle we having a stall there, they help raise money to keep our family activities program for free. And there'll be lots of other local traders and interesting stalls. And so people from around Haringey can have a stall. So we're curating that at the moment. So it's a lovely community event. So do come and support us for that and just to say the Haringey feast, we've been working and commissioning storytelling chairs. So working with local artists for what is the Haringey feast. So the the borough was a runner up in the London borough of culture a couple of years back. And so this year is the one event that was selected by the Mayor of London and it's called the Haringey feast. So it's going to be at Alexandra Palace. But there's been lots of maker opportunities. And so we've been working with different people ourselves. We've been working with different artists, story chairs. So these will be going out into the community to tell your story.

Jamila  33:12  

So are you ready for some top tips?

Deborah  33:15  

Top Tips Yes, so Well, what would be my top tip for visiting Tottenham and indeed the borough? Well, I would obviously advocate for Bruce Castle heritage quarter and really come along explore if you've never been to Bruce Castle, you really ought to and tune in to our website BruceCastle.org And really take an active part in the different range of exhibitions and events that we hold because there is something for everyone and if it's nothing for you, make sure someone else knows about it, pass the word on so that's really important. So I do also think visit Tottenham cemetery it is a really beautiful space and it does come alive with stories when you're going on different walks - I lead walks others lead walks around there so it's becoming this place for reflection. Tottenham marshes very important - David cartridge and Rita cartridge are the friends of Tottenham marshes. Really they share their fantastic knowledge about the wildlife and the flora and fauna around the marshes - really special fantastic photographers David cartridge, but also his knowledge is exceptional. And we're really lucky to have someone like David in our community, and also the Parkland walk going all the way up to Highgate wood. There's soon to be an installment to the next year of the Highgate Roman kill, which is currently here at Bruce castle, but we've managed to get some funding to help restore it. So it's been a long journey of 14 years. But journey to get it back to Highgate wood and that will make another fantastic addition and exploring the heritage of that very special place at Highgate wood along the Parkland walk, Finsbury Park being at the beginning - great for history, as well as exploring the space. And places to go: ferry boat inn,  San Marco has been around for a very long time. 50 plus years. So glorious places. And I'm quite familiar with Finsbury Park area and Stroud green as well. So Stroud Green Road, Tottenham high road. Love it all.

Jamila  35:32  

Such a great advocate for your area.

Deborah  35:35  

Thank you. Yes, I should be the local tourist board.

Jamila  35:38  

And you have a book out and you mentioned it at the beginning that you were writing a book, is it about Tottenham? I looked it up. It's on Amazon, you can get it right?

Deborah  35:50  

Oh can you? I think it's a rare book now. Well, twenty years ago, I wrote a book with Christine procs. So it's Tottenham and WoodGreen. past and present. This was republished as Tottenham and Wood Green then and now, and I think they might have all sold out. It's very rare to find it. But sometimes you might get seconds. And I also wrote Haringey at war, which is still a few in stock. But yes, so kind of when I came here, you really had to write the books, so that people could showcase this. This is when, say 20 years ago, maybe the internet and people doing online websites weren't as commonplace as they are now. But there are other books in me. One is Beatrice Offor. That's a very special artist that we have here, an exhibition which we're holding that is semi permanent at the moment to showcase that work. Because that's been a 20 year journey of exploration and uncovering her special story, which I'm very proud of. But that book and also another book that might be a little consortium of us to showcase this rather special collection of photographs that were collated by someone called Fred feschi was a publisher, bookseller, and postcard maker on Tottenham high road on the site where Millicent Fawcett court is now and he wrote some of the early histories of Tottenham in the 20th century, he wasn't the first person to write histories of Tottenham, but in 1912, he wrote the history of Tottenham, and we had to wait until 2011, for that next Tottenham history to be published in the same, not in the same way, but obviously, as an overall view of Tottenham with in depth information. So 100 years for that to happen on this. So it's really important to write those books.

Jamila  37:44  

Okay, thank you very much for this interview. So I hope you enjoyed this one. And you can get the books on Amazon. It's like one is 40 pounds one is 78 pounds, but you can! Or on other booksellers that are available as well. I'm gonna link in to usual socials, I think from talking to Deborah, what I kind of picked up on is, it's really important that we are going to different exhibitions that we are going to the different events, and that people need to join the Friends of Bruce castle to get a little bit more people involved as well. Okay, so I hope you feel inspired and you get nice and cozy with this dark weather now, on those candle snuggle up in your blanket. And then soon there will be Christmas -okay, so speak to you soon. I hope you enjoyed today's episode, learned something new. And let that Tottenham love grow - take care. And until next time, byyye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai